Author Topic: Remove Desolation Valley from rotation  (Read 1773 times)

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Offline xls

  • Posts: 2
Remove Desolation Valley from rotation
« on: April 18, 2015, 11:14:44 PM »
Hey,

Although I respect the decisions made by the IG team, I can't stand without saying this. Seriously, please remove Desolation Valley from your rotation. Might be a good map for competitive play, but it is as annoying as it can be on public play! (Sorry AZAN, it's just unbearable on public)

And please don't say "if you don't like, don't play" kind of stuff. As far as I see, it's the map where half of the server leaves and switches to the Ludus (or start endless polls).

So, please reconsider it.

Offline Trebron

  • Posts: 54
Re: Remove Desolation Valley from rotation
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2015, 10:48:44 AM »
Desolaton Valley is terrible even in competitive matches. Don't know who made decision to allow it in tournamnets but i'm pretty sure if this map wasn't made by Azan it wouldnt get a place in any tournament. Almost everyone i know say it's a bad map - both people from KURWA and Polish nations cup team. The map like this, where one of teams is starting on much higher ground will never be good + too much cover for archers.
Desolation Valley was already added to ECS tho. So it shouldn't be removed from map rotation on IG. But if there was any chacne to remove it from both ECS and public server - i'm for it  :D

Offline Oliveran

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Re: Remove Desolation Valley from rotation
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2015, 11:17:14 AM »
It's already removed, your post is a bit late ;)


Please teach me how to block :c

Offline xls

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Re: Remove Desolation Valley from rotation
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2015, 06:31:12 PM »
Oh, nice to know that!

Offline Scar

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Re: Remove Desolation Valley from rotation
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2015, 07:08:56 PM »
Desolaton Valley is terrible even in competitive matches. Don't know who made decision to allow it in tournamnets but i'm pretty sure if this map wasn't made by Azan it wouldnt get a place in any tournament. Almost everyone i know say it's a bad map - both people from KURWA and Polish nations cup team. The map like this, where one of teams is starting on much higher ground will never be good + too much cover for archers.
Desolation Valley was already added to ECS tho. So it shouldn't be removed from map rotation on IG. But if there was any chacne to remove it from both ECS and public server - i'm for it  :D
I disagree really, I think the way it played out in the NC proved it is a good competitive map. Whether it is a good map for public play or not is another story though. I don't like it too much on public myself.

Offline Kiron

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Re: Remove Desolation Valley from rotation
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2015, 07:16:44 PM »
imo it's a unbalanced map actually. That is the  only reason for all of us hate this map.  :)

Offline Oliveran

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Re: Remove Desolation Valley from rotation
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2015, 06:08:48 AM »
I disagree really, I think the way it played out in the NC proved it is a good competitive map. Whether it is a good map for public play or not is another story though. I don't like it too much on public myself.
Pretty much this. It's removed from public due to a lot of people leaving when it's on (same happened with FbtR before).


Please teach me how to block :c

Offline OurGloriousLeader

  • Posts: 41
Re: Remove Desolation Valley from rotation
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2015, 12:50:42 PM »
still better than fbtr

Offline AZAN

  • Posts: 100
Re: Remove Desolation Valley from rotation
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2015, 05:13:56 PM »
It doesn't play well on IG no, I don't entirely put that down to the map though. You tell me how I can stop teams endlessly running in circles and sacrificing all defensive positions, because that's the reason that cav dominate so much. Every single round the lower team runs up to the left of the wall in a long strung out column while being constantly harassed by cav, just this stupid running in circles rubbish that every other IG map has. There's certainly no real pressures that are forcing teams to do that, just sheep mentality and the knowledge that if you don't do as the rest of the team does you die anyway. Is it really surprising cav utterly dominate there when rangers can barely shoot safely because the inf are desperately running round the race track. Do we really need positions on a map that are so secure that they cannot actually be attacked by cav just to get rangers to sit still? That tends to just lead to the absolute static play you see on maps like Ruins.

As for the competitive balance, any statement to that regard is frankly nonsense, I've seen either side win on it plenty and factions are almost always more determinate of the winner. Flags are evenly distributed, teams have even access to important positions on the map, the elevation can also be gained by either side depending on how you play it. Any minor imbalance is dealt with by the mirror match-up as it is with every other map, we don't play on symmetrical maps (because everyone hates them remember?).

There's a level of vitriol and hatred directed at me I do not appreciate when I spend time genuinely trying to improve maps to remove issues. If you think you can do better than you should try since we're extremely short on open maps.

Pretty much this. It's removed from public due to a lot of people leaving when it's on (same happened with FbtR before).

The same happens with ruins.

Offline Triari

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Re: Remove Desolation Valley from rotation
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2015, 06:38:26 PM »
I agree with Azan.

A few little groups with one or two archers and a few infantries to protect them combined with a bit of cavalry support works for every faction and spawn.
Nowadays on most maps on Battlegrounds you have two choices: either stick with your team and run in circles or go somewhere else and die alone. Even the best map-design can't really force people to do it differently, it's up to them to decide how they play. The best example for me is San'di'boush - spawning 5 seconds later leads to your death, not following your team leads to your death, etc. You have to run in circles all the time and those at the end will be killed one by one. It's the same on this map as Azan already pointed out above.

Desolation Valley is not a bad map, it's just not suited for public playing (at the moment). This is not caused by the map itself but by the people and the way they play.
I've played this map a few times in real matches and I liked the new challenge and the tactics you can use. Ruins or Field by the River are played over and over and after all those years I don't like them anymore. Most seem to not appreciate any changes to the map rotation but as Azan said, we are short on open maps. If you don't even try to play it in a competitive way and instantly hate it we will be stuck forever with those really old maps.

Offline Trebron

  • Posts: 54
Re: Remove Desolation Valley from rotation
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2015, 08:23:52 PM »
It doesn't play well on IG no, I don't entirely put that down to the map though. You tell me how I can stop teams endlessly running in circles and sacrificing all defensive positions, because that's the reason that cav dominate so much. Every single round the lower team runs up to the left of the wall in a long strung out column while being constantly harassed by cav, just this stupid running in circles rubbish that every other IG map has. There's certainly no real pressures that are forcing teams to do that, just sheep mentality and the knowledge that if you don't do as the rest of the team does you die anyway.
Then what else did you expect people from the lower spawn to do, having big open field between them and first reasonable cover that is almost on another side of the map? When if you stay at the spawncamp or go right/left side you're gonna get rekt by all the cav that comes there in just 30 seconds. Should they form a shieldwall? Or should inf cooperate with archers? XD